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  1. #11

    Re: Love it or hate it... my 2nd daughter has a unique name.

    Quote Originally Posted by lemon
    Quote Originally Posted by gwensmom
    I don't think the issue is deciding which people to please or how many opinions to take into consideration. In my opinion, the question is, how will a child of name XX be received in her daily life (at school, at the park, at the grocery, etc), how will a teenager of name XX be received, how will an adult of name XX be received. Her name may appear on resumes, she may have to introduce herself over the phone in a professional environment (Hello, my name is XX), she will have to send e-mails or other written correspondence. What impression does name XX convey? Will she be taken seriously? Obviously you can't please everyone and I don't think that is the parents' job when naming their children.

    Butterfly, in my opinion, is adorable for a child and conveys light-heartedness and happiness, just as a child should be. But I fear that it does not seem professional or grown up at all. What would you think if your doctor's name was Butterfly? What would you think if you saw Butterfly on a ballot? What would you think if you called a company and the receptionist introduced herself as Butterfly?
    This is what I meant. I don't think choosing a name for your child is about pleasing anyone, really, well except for maybe yourself and your husband. It is about choosing a name that will suite your child and provide him or her a solid foundation and a good foot to start out on. I fully believe a name can do that. A name says a lot about a person (or that person's parents) whether intended or not. For instance, parents who chose Charlotte for their child, and the little girl herself, may be perceived as more traditional, conservative, sophisticated, strong, successful, perhaps even wealthy, than parents who chose a name like Emerald, Dove, or even Butterfly. Does that make it a bad name? Maybe not, but still, maybe it does. I mentioned Western cultures because they tend to value names that, in a way, don't need to be defended. It is fine to have an unusual name, as long as it is a name, if you know what I mean. Certainly, this doesn't work everywhere, as every culture and country has unique naming practices, which is great!

    I was merely saying that, in my own opinion, Butterfly doesn't convey the image I would want to give to my daughter, especially as she matures into a grown woman. Butterfly certainly conveys flirty playfulness and childlike imagination, but it doesn't convey a sense of strength, sophistication, and success that I would want for my daughter. Clearly, my opinion is not shared by everyone, and I wouldn't make the mistake of assuming so.

    Your description of Charlotte as "traditional, conservative, sophisticated, strong, successful, perhaps even wealthy" is very revealing. First of all, "traditional" and "conservative" are not connotations that are universally valued. Personally, those words translate to me as "boring" and "bland". Since I value creativity and innovation, these are not virtues I would hope for in my kid and I would- out of kindness- try not to associate those horrible things with a kid or an adult named Charlotte, but I agree that there is that dusty safeness to the name. The other adjectives you mention are certainly seen as positive, but whether they truly apply to the name Charlotte is debatable. Names are subjective.

    Right now we have a president named Barack, so I think it's safe to say that names that convey strength, wealth, power, and success today are not necessarily the same names that conveyed it yesterday. Or at least maybe there is more room at the podium now for unlikely newcomer names. Charlotte is steeped in vintage charm, or yesterdayness. Perhaps it does convey all the things you mentioned, but that doesn't mean Butterfly doesn't or can't in the future. It's not yesterday anymore. Butterfly might be a writer for a successful television show, she might be a theater director, a dancer, a violinist. Charlotte might answer phones, a very traditional and conservative position for a woman to hold. Just what you want, right? I honestly don't have a problem with the name Charlotte. I'm just trying to give a different perspective.

  2. #13

    Re: Love it or hate it... my 2nd daughter has a unique name.

    Quote Originally Posted by lemon
    Quote Originally Posted by caaaaaaaaaitlin
    Quote Originally Posted by gwensmom
    I don't think the issue is deciding which people to please or how many opinions to take into consideration. In my opinion, the question is, how will a child of name XX be received in her daily life (at school, at the park, at the grocery, etc), how will a teenager of name XX be received, how will an adult of name XX be received. Her name may appear on resumes, she may have to introduce herself over the phone in a professional environment (Hello, my name is XX), she will have to send e-mails or other written correspondence. What impression does name XX convey? Will she be taken seriously? Obviously you can't please everyone and I don't think that is the parents' job when naming their children.

    Butterfly, in my opinion, is adorable for a child and conveys light-heartedness and happiness, just as a child should be. But I fear that it does not seem professional or grown up at all. What would you think if your doctor's name was Butterfly? What would you think if you saw Butterfly on a ballot? What would you think if you called a company and the receptionist introduced herself as Butterfly?
    If I met an adult named Butterfly tomorrow I might prejudicially assume she had hippie parents. I might scoff or smirk. However, fourteen years from now [did she say her child was six?], when this kid is an adult, should I encounter a Butterfly on the ballot, or the phone, I doubt I will think much of it other than to note her generation and be surprised she doesn't have a last name as a first name, a unisex name, or some kind of Emma, Ella, Ada, Ava variation. By the time little Butterfly is an adult, the world will be propagated by much more controversial or "unique" names and our sensibilities will have adapted to it. We might find Butterfly to be a perfectly sensible, grown-up name in a world where kids will probably be named after typos or texting acronyms.
    Oh, goodness, I personally hope not! I can't see naming trends going that way, especially when, amidst the fascination with Ava and Ella, Ainsley and Hailey, more and more parents are returning to vintage names of the 1920s, reviving old classics, and making fresh naming choices with family names of their own.
    I just recently read an article by Laura Wattenberg, author of the bestselling book "The Baby Name Wizard", about the texting acronym "ilu" being used as a name. "Ilu" is of course a common sign-off that means "I love you". Laura predicts that teenie-boppers of today who live life through cell phone texts, IM, and social networking sites might be drawn to names that convey the here and now, the information age, the communication age. These future baby-making machines, might see Ilu as a sentimental yet fresh choice. Even the men of tomorrow are born of the online gaming generation of today. Obscure techie references are bound to start popping up in the names of the future. Ilu actually fits right in with the vowel-heavy trend you mentioned. It's not that far off from Ella, or even better, the fast-riser Isla. I can't find the article now, or I'd post a link. I don't feel I've done it justice, but I have no doubt that internet lingo will find it's way into our monikers.

  3. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    6,048

    Re: Love it or hate it... my 2nd daughter has a unique name.

    Quote Originally Posted by caaaaaaaaaitlin
    Quote Originally Posted by lemon
    Quote Originally Posted by gwensmom
    I don't think the issue is deciding which people to please or how many opinions to take into consideration. In my opinion, the question is, how will a child of name XX be received in her daily life (at school, at the park, at the grocery, etc), how will a teenager of name XX be received, how will an adult of name XX be received. Her name may appear on resumes, she may have to introduce herself over the phone in a professional environment (Hello, my name is XX), she will have to send e-mails or other written correspondence. What impression does name XX convey? Will she be taken seriously? Obviously you can't please everyone and I don't think that is the parents' job when naming their children.

    Butterfly, in my opinion, is adorable for a child and conveys light-heartedness and happiness, just as a child should be. But I fear that it does not seem professional or grown up at all. What would you think if your doctor's name was Butterfly? What would you think if you saw Butterfly on a ballot? What would you think if you called a company and the receptionist introduced herself as Butterfly?
    This is what I meant. I don't think choosing a name for your child is about pleasing anyone, really, well except for maybe yourself and your husband. It is about choosing a name that will suite your child and provide him or her a solid foundation and a good foot to start out on. I fully believe a name can do that. A name says a lot about a person (or that person's parents) whether intended or not. For instance, parents who chose Charlotte for their child, and the little girl herself, may be perceived as more traditional, conservative, sophisticated, strong, successful, perhaps even wealthy, than parents who chose a name like Emerald, Dove, or even Butterfly. Does that make it a bad name? Maybe not, but still, maybe it does. I mentioned Western cultures because they tend to value names that, in a way, don't need to be defended. It is fine to have an unusual name, as long as it is a name, if you know what I mean. Certainly, this doesn't work everywhere, as every culture and country has unique naming practices, which is great!

    I was merely saying that, in my own opinion, Butterfly doesn't convey the image I would want to give to my daughter, especially as she matures into a grown woman. Butterfly certainly conveys flirty playfulness and childlike imagination, but it doesn't convey a sense of strength, sophistication, and success that I would want for my daughter. Clearly, my opinion is not shared by everyone, and I wouldn't make the mistake of assuming so.

    Your description of Charlotte as "traditional, conservative, sophisticated, strong, successful, perhaps even wealthy" is very revealing. First of all, "traditional" and "conservative" are not connotations that are universally valued. Personally, those words translate to me as "boring" and "bland". Since I value creativity and innovation, these are not virtues I would hope for in my kid and I would- out of kindness- try not to associate those horrible things with a kid or an adult named Charlotte, but I agree that there is that dusty safeness to the name. The other adjectives you mention are certainly seen as positive, but whether they truly apply to the name Charlotte is debatable. Names are subjective.

    Right now we have a president named Barack, so I think it's safe to say that names that convey strength, wealth, power, and success today are not necessarily the same names that conveyed it yesterday. Or at least maybe there is more room at the podium now for unlikely newcomer names. Charlotte is steeped in vintage charm, or yesterdayness. Perhaps it does convey all the things you mentioned, but that doesn't mean Butterfly doesn't or can't in the future. It's not yesterday anymore. Butterfly might be a writer for a successful television show, she might be a theater director, a dancer, a violinist. Charlotte might answer phones, a very traditional and conservative position for a woman to hold. Just what you want, right? I honestly don't have a problem with the name Charlotte. I'm just trying to give a different perspective.
    I didn't say that those were universally valued characteristics. Everyone has their own opinions on names, which is what I thought this was about. I'm not casting judgment here, I'm merely expressing my opinion. Nowhere did I say that I hated the name Butterfly. I don't hate the name Butterfly (even though I am, ironically, quite afraid of the creatures) - I merely said it wasn't my style and I would've made a different choice. PEOPLE value different things in names, which is why we have so many different ones - a good thing!

    "Charlotte might answer phones, a very traditional and conservative position for a woman to hold. Just what you want, right?" I don't know what this means or what you are trying to suggest with this comment, and I don't really think I want to know. This sounds like a very sexist comment, reflective of the ideologies and expectations surrounding women at the turn of the 20th century, spanning well into today, even. This is not a view I subscribe to, however, and I certainly didn't think I conveyed that in my earlier post. I happen to like the name Charlotte quite a bit, and of course that reflects on my naming style - I like classics. Yes, some people think they are stuffy and boring, but I think they are elegant and pretty. If you don't care for it (though I realize you don't have a "problem" with it) it is quite alright with me!

    I think that perhaps my words are being misconstrued, but you can think what you want. I respect your opinion as much as I respect anyone else's, as individuality and self-expression is also something I value, like you. I'll leave my comments on this poll at that, as I don't want to feel like I need to stand up for myself on this poll. I wish you a good night!
    "Names, once they are in common use, quickly become mere sounds, their etymology being buried, like so many of the earth's marvels, beneath the dust of habit." - Salman Rushdie

    Boy Combinations: Archer Solomon James, Ronan Charles Bennett, Everett Hawthorn Thomas
    Girl Combinations: Phoebe Marietta Pearl, Clara Daphne Eloise
    Other Favorites: Eliza (Eliza Wren), Juliet, Rosanna, Thea, Johanna, Jude

  4. #17

    Re: Love it or hate it... my 2nd daughter has a unique name.

    Lemon:

    We're just discussing personal opinions, but that doesn't mean they can't be looked at objectively. Examining the reasoning behind our likes and dislikes as individuals and as a society is interesting. I think that's why we as name enthusiasts/critics participate in discussions like this. Maybe I'm a little too enthusiastic/critical. I'll give you that if I've offended you, but I'd like to stress that it's all just for argument's sake on my end. I like/dislike Butterfly and Charlotte equally. It's just that Charlotte doesn't need any defending as a name, whereas I think Butterfly could use some.

    For clarity's sake-- since you don't want to know-- my "Charlotte might answer phones" comment was very much meant to remind you of the expectations of women around the turn of the 20th century. I thought that was obvious. When you choose a classic name you get all of the tradition and conservatism that comes with it. As you seemed to take for granted that traditionalism and conservatism are good things, I thought I might point out that they can just as easily be bad. Sexism, for instance, is a tradition. As a name Butterfly has it's own obvious drawbacks to overcome. I just don't think they're really any worse than a lot of cherished classics or new, trendy inductees. Since there's safety in numbers, the baggage in these names gets overlooked while standouts get eyed suspiciously. It's silly. There might be greater risk in a name like Butterfly [maybe!], but there's no guarantee that playing it safe is really gonna render your kid happier or more successful either. Safety can be damning-- or just plain... plain.

    And a good night to you as well, Lemon.

  5. #19

    Re: Love it or hate it... my 2nd daughter has a unique name.

    About the texting acronym post...

    The name was Ily, not Ilu. I was mistaken. Both stand for "I love you". Here's the blog address if anyone is interested:

    http://www.babynamewizard.com/archiv...-of-the-future

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