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  1. #86
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
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    Copenhagen, Denmark
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    Quote Originally Posted by auntanne1122 View Post
    IMO you should get this out of your head, relax and enjoy your little boy. Life is too short to worry about such things. You like the name and you can't please everyone. Your child should be proud of his name. I would say it's their problem, you didn't do anything intentional here. You nor he is offending anyone. God loves all of his children.
    It is comments like this that make me shake my head and lose faith in humanity. Tell me, please, how can a child be proud of a name that he possibly will get side-eyed for? And the "you can't please everyone" argument is just stupid. I will always fail to understand why one's love for a name could overshadow potential judgement towards one's child.
    Zelia • Twenty • Film, history and royalty connoisseur • I have a personal blog and one about royalty
    Exporting beautiful old Danish names, exotic Greenlandic names and Greenlandic sibling names
    Henry Ásgeirr Edmund • Amaury Charles Fyodor "Theo" • Alexander Adelin Lórien "Sasha" • Asa Edouard Ivik
    Cosima Ingrid Zenobia "Mimi" • Matilda Ivalo Galadriel "Tilda" • Gaia Margaret Undómiel • Asta Catherine Françoise "Shazza"

  2. #88
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    125
    Quote Originally Posted by milasmama View Post
    I cannot see anything oppressive about "separating things" ie having different things belong to different cultures. That is just how it is - not everything in the world is just there for the taking. It is far more oppressive not to respect what another culture or religion holds as important, even if those things are not personally important to you. Nobody is asking anyone to hold the same sacred beliefs about the name Cohen as Jewish people do, just to respect that they do and use other names because of that. It's not a hardship to have millions of other names in the world to choose from.
    This pretty much sums up how I feel. I don't see why anyone would use a name that is going to cause offence. Cohen is a very important name for a lot of Jews. Using it as a first name is vastly different from it bring someone's surname. Just because there are a few ignorant people using Cohen as a first name does not mean it is ok. A lot of people do offensive things for bad reasons, this doesn't give you an excuse to join in.

    It is so typical of our culture now days for people to take something special and significant and say it's your fault your offended that I have used it. Is it so hard to find a different name, one that isn't going to cause an issue?

    As for the poster. You made a daft choice, you should have done more research. Your son now has a name, just live with it and explain that you didn't know and that he is named after someone.

  3. #90
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    9,452
    Quote Originally Posted by shvibziks View Post
    It is comments like this that make me shake my head and lose faith in humanity. Tell me, please, how can a child be proud of a name that he possibly will get side-eyed for? And the "you can't please everyone" argument is just stupid. I will always fail to understand why one's love for a name could overshadow potential judgement towards one's child.
    Honestly, this is ridiculous. I seriously doubt anyone is going side-eye your child over a name his parents chose. Unless they think it is weird because it isn't a top 10 name.

  4. #92
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Flyover Territory
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    1,145
    Quote Originally Posted by charliemc09 View Post
    You quite obviously misunderstood everything I said. Seperating things into 'mine' and 'theirs' does other people. I respect that the name means something important to them, I also respect that everyone has a choice as to what to name their child and they should not be shoved into an 'ignorant and oppressive' cateogory of a person just because they do not feel the same as the group who do hold the name to have a different and important meaning to them. Some ppl view the name Cohen as religious and important , others do not. Everyone is free to have their own meaning and importance on the name Cohen and not everyone as to have the same one.

    I wouldn't necessarily shove a parent who uses this name into the "ignorant and oppressive category" as a whole. But I can wholeheartedly call them ignorant (in the true, dictionary meaning of the word) in an area as huge as naming their own child for not doing a simple google search of the name that they've chosen for their child (for goodness's sake - what if Cohen was the name of some terrible Stalin-esque tyrant, or something?). In a simple Google search for "Cohen given name", FOUR out of the top six suggested articles revolve around this debate and give an explanation of exactly why this is considered cultural appropriation. Basically, by saying that "everyone can have their own meaning and importance" associated with the name is to say "I get to choose when I will show respect toward deeply held religious beliefs of others, and since I choose to attribute no meaning to this 'string of letters' people shouldn't be offended". I can choose to attribute my own meaning to all sorts of words, but that doesn't mean that the vast majority of those around me are going to share my meaning - they are much more likely to go with the dictionary or social meaning of said word or idea. The difference with something like Cohen, is that my decision won't affect me adversely *because it's a minority* whose cultural meaning I'm choosing to ignore. Oppression isn't just beating people down or passing laws to limit rights - it's often just the act of pretending a minority people don't exist or that their opinions don't matter. It's incredibly dismissive of an entire group of people to just say "Ehhh, I don't know any Jewish people, so who cares?"
    Last edited by tk.; October 7th, 2013 at 06:03 PM.
    Tara, proud mama to a Honey Badger
    ... and a Badger in Training

  5. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by tk. View Post
    I wouldn't necessarily shove a parent who uses this name into the "ignorant and oppressive category" as a whole. But I can wholeheartedly call them ignorant (in the true, dictionary meaning of the word) in an area as huge as naming their own child for not doing a simple google search of the name that they've chosen for their child (for goodness's sake - what if Cohen was the name of some terrible Stalin-esque tyrant, or something?). In a simple Google search for "Cohen given name", FOUR out of the top six suggested articles revolve around this debate and give an explanation of exactly why this is considered cultural appropriation. Basically, by saying that "everyone can have their own meaning and importance" associated with the name is to say "I get to choose when I will show respect toward deeply held religious beliefs of others, and since I choose to attribute no meaning to this 'string of letters' people shouldn't be offended". I can choose to attribute my own meaning to all sorts of words, but that doesn't mean that the vast majority of those around me are going to share my meaning - they are much more likely to go with the dictionary or social meaning of said word or idea. The difference with something like Cohen, is that my decision won't affect me adversely *because it's a minority* whose cultural meaning I'm choosing to ignore. Oppression isn't just beating people down or passing laws to limit rights - it's often just the act of pretending a minority people don't exist or that their opinions don't matter. It's incredibly dismissive of an entire group of people to just say "Ehhh, I don't know any Jewish people, so who cares?"

    Sorry I'm trying to understand you but I find it difficult too, I don't know why, maybe the way you write. My main point has always been that I don't believe the first name cohen to be the same as the last name cohen because they only share orthographic similarity and not meaning or even pronounciation/phonemic basis in most cases. I never mentioned anything about minorities as I don't even know if jewish ppl are minorities where the OP is from or not, they are not a minority everywhere, but regardless or minority or majority status no one should be oppressed, and I certainly never said oppression is just beating people and limiting rights nor did I mention ignoring that is has a meaning to them or ignoring them?? I'm merely saying the name Cohen is different to other people, for example to me where I'm from Cohen is both Koen/Coen spelling variation and a name of a popular store thats been used on kids cause..I honestly don't know why parents name their kids after a popular furniture store *shrugs* but thats what the name is to me thats what I associate it with and therefore I don't think its the same name as the jewish cohen, do you get what I'm saying? To me it isn't the same name, others don't feel the same as I do and thats how the world works, people will always disagree with each other on different things. If I had a kid named Cohen and someone told me it offends them I would explain its a Koen/Coen variation where I'm from and not the jewish name they are thinking of. Respect goes both ways, I respect Cohen is religious for some , people should respect that its not the same name for others. I don't understand how thats hard. You simply can't avoid everything that offends anyone anywhere in the world. Personally I wouldn't use Cohen/Coen/Koen cause I don't like it but I'm not gonna see others mauled for using it. Freedom for all, no one owns a name.

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