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April 17th, 2013 07:53 PM #111Senior Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
No one is forcing them to do anything, so no one is being the "speech police". Again - we all get that the descriptions are full of opinions - but like it's already been stated - if you are in the public eye, you either phrase things in a non-offensive way or you get a crap reputation. No offense, but since a huge portion of the country thinks that racism, homophobia and the like IS offensive and wrong, it would serve them well to phrase things in a way that does not come across that way. And yes, homophobia and racism are hotbutton words, but REALLY - what else can "limp wristed" be described as? What other possible explanation could there be to using the term "limp wristed" in a description of a name that has a high profile homosexual attached to it? There isn't even an argument there. Whether it was meant to be nasty or not is not the point - the point is that it comes across as extremely vile and we pointed it out. It's their own prerogative whether to change it or not.
When your fans come out and say that they don't like what you are doing, you have two choices: you can acknowledge it and address the problem or ignore it and keep doing it your way. Pam and Linda have obviously decided that the feelings and views of their supporters are important to them, so they looked over and addressed the issue. Some things have been changed, others have not - via THEIR choice. But, again, when you are in the public eye and you put your work out there, people WILL tell you how they feel and how things come off, it's part of being well known and being brave enough to put yourself out there.
That being said - politics has it's place here in some cases, but I agree - not in so many things that they are brought into. But then, you are the one who told a 15 year old girl that she shouldn't be having sex based on things more than just physical consequences, so you can't play innocent there.
April 17th, 2013 08:04 PM #113Senior Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
April 18th, 2013 08:51 AM #115
I was going to respond to a whole bunch of posts but decided that would make mine WAY too long.
I am one of those people who love the boards but don't ever visit the name descriptions on NB except if prompted to by a particular comment. This is mostly because I wasn't getting the depth of information I was looking for and I found some of the opinions disrespectful. However, I fully recognized that they were personal opinions, and part of me enjoyed knowing they were there. A section that says "Linda feels this name is.... Pam thinks...." could be a great way to incorporate those opinions and really give fans some insight into the different preference of feelings of each. This would be particularly cool if they didn't fully agree. Maybe Linda finds Ashley on a boy very handsome and Pam think's it's gone too much to the girls to be used. But how cool would it be to be able to look that up. FYI: babynames.com and some other sites have names split into pink, blue and green (unisex) which might be a cool option with the increasing number of gender-neutral names being discussed.
I think it's important for NB fans to be able to point out entries that need updating. As Linda pointed out multiple times there are 50,000 names listed on this website. It's a bit hard to keep track of 50,000 of anything. If they were constantly reviewing entries they'd never get around to adding new ones.Aurelia - Endora - Illyria - Lorelei - Merida - Ofelia - Penrose - Tabitha - Viola - Zenobia
Alaric - Anton - Cedric - Dexter - Erich - Felix - Hector - Hendrik - Leonidas - Victor
Engaged to the best Man in the World. (God-mama to Lawrence, a little bundle of sunshine).
April 19th, 2013 09:21 AM #117
Phew. I'm mostly checking in to keep up with the discussion here. Zippy, I very much appreciate your post. The heart of our work, what made is so revolutionary when it was first published in 1988 and what makes our books and Nameberry different from anything that exists now or is likely to exist in the future because of the changing rights landscape, is the qualitative analysis based on decades of research and experience. Just in case anyone's confused on this point, we abhor homophobia and misogyny and racism. We've updated entries that "rub people the wrong way" and will continue to update constantly.
But our opinions will remain and what's more, the voice and attitude of this site are what attract this vibrant community of educated and passionate name lovers with well-informed and sophisticated opinions of their own. We not only invite but LOVE hearing your opinions and ideas on names and expect the same high regard in return.
Lexiem, really fun idea to point up the times when Linda and I disagree, though I'm afraid it would be a very short section....could be a great idea for a blog. One of the many things that's supported our long and happy partnership is that we are in agreement on most names (but not Henrietta. I'll save that for the blog).
One of the changes we have on board for Nameberry in the near future is a page inviting your commentary on every name which will widen the opportunity for individual commentary. Our wish is that this will open the way to a wider range of opinions beyond our own on many names, which will help parents make better-informed decisions on names for their babies.Pam Satran
April 19th, 2013 10:21 AM #119
There's nothing wrong in pointing out things that rub users the wrong way, with the intentions and hopes of it being remedied.
Did we pose an ultimatum? No. We're not forcing anything. We simply posted our issues, and left it up to Pam and Linda to choose what to do.
Also, just because Barack Obama's mother's name is Stanley doesn't mean we have to like it, or think it's suitable on a female.
If you don't see the joy, that's your own issue. I'm plenty happy on this forum, thank you very much.Laurel - 2O - Aries - Slytherin - University of Toronto
Newest thoughts for little ones: Angelo - Caspian - Eden | Isabela - Brisa - Gisele