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  1. #76
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    363
    I am still loving this thread. The mention of naming a boy Jane made me think of something- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ers#Jayne_Cobb

    One of my favorite writer/directors/etc.'s is Joss Whedon who actually has a male character named Jayne. It also strikes me that it's a Joss Whedon character because he has been known for writing strong female characters and when asked why he continuously writes strong female characters he responded with, "because you're still asking me that question." If my best friend didn't already have "dibs" on Jane I would totally consider it for a boy and as my boyfriend is a Whedonite and lover of Firefly he may actually agree!
    Girls- Winter, Eden, Colette, River, Charlotte.
    Boys- Atticus, Eliot, Milo, Gideon, Malcolm.

  2. #78
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Northern England
    Posts
    3,673
    I hate to bring this back up after this thread has evolved so much since, but there is a point that I wanted to make late last night but didn't (I had it all typed out but didn't send it)...

    Quote Originally Posted by blade View Post
    I'm dipping my toe into waters that are not my own here, but I do think divergent *male* sexuality is socially much more feared and unacceptable than divergent *female* sexuality. This is reflected in multiple attitudes and expectations placed on boys in areas which are much more important than names, but since Names R Us, I'll give an example. Just look at the nameberry description of my son Antoine's name: "your friendly neighborhood hairdresser." The implication, of course, is that Antoine is a gay name (because it's French and somewhat soft; of course no one would ever say that about Anthony or Antonio), and being a gay name is obviously undesirable and mockable. I can't think of a single name that is an 'undesirable' 'lesbian' name; they're usually glossed as 'tomboy' or 'boyish' and viewed quite positively. Hence the frequently expressed worries on nameberry by posters wondering whether 'soft' names on boys are OK, or if they should stick to the safety of the machismo camp, but I cannot recall a thread where a poster queried whether or not a particular name being considered for a girl was too masculine or hard.
    I do agree with this, but along with Augusta's point of oppression being a spectrum that is different for males/females, I think you also have to look deeper at *why* this is.
    In our culture, lesbians, and straight females too, are very much fetishised into existing for the entertainment of straight males (a prime example and cause being the porn industry). Heterosexual males always take priority, hence why divergent male sexuality is feared more: gay males, unlike lesbians, do not exist for heterosexual men; so they're are deemed 'weird' and 'icky and 'girly' - not just because of the 'gay guy' stereotype but also because femininity is undesirable so is therefore insulting for a male.
    Which of course, like has been pointed out, is reflected in naming. I constantly get feedback from people on my boy's list telling me they're 'too soft and feminine' for little boys, which I can't stand.
    ★ O L I V I A ★
    (seventeen, student/traveller, obsessively maternal - with a darling black cat named Shura)

    Emmett - Alec - Rufus - Wilfred - Eoghan
    Trudie - Fenella - Aoife - Jemima - Polly

  3. #80
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    5,340
    Quote Originally Posted by emmabobemma View Post
    ^^ Yes, my post is probably confusing. It's late here, and I overshared I suppose. I may erase it. East93, you don't notice little girls getting more and more disneyfied, wearing sparkly pink stuff more than 10 years ago? There's this thing of "spa parties" for little girls here that I find really disturbing, because it's sending little girls the message that they need to worry about their appearance. What a bore! They should be climbing trees, reading books, playing make-believe, not obsessing about primping! As for the other thing I mentioned, I have a friend who teaches sex-ed to kids, and says it's a real problem. There's a culture of gratuitous bl*wj*bs among teens and pre-teens, where girls are getting nothing, but feel obligated to perform... I do think this points to a lack of self-respect that comes from being told over and over that you're valued for your looks, for the things that make you valuable to men.
    Oh yes. This scares me as mother to a girl.

    This is an amazing thread, I've loved reading it but between all your wonderful comments I don't feel I've got too much to contribute.
    [FONT=Palatino Linotype][CENTER]My darling Marian Illyria Aphrodite, March 2013 & Little Bunny (a girl!) due 9th of February 2014[/CENTER][/FONT]

  4. #82
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    2,710
    Quote Originally Posted by rowangreeneyes View Post
    Don't we see this same situation in nature ALL the time? Don't females in most other species "groom" themselves to be more attractive to males? It always seems to be the people trying to be so violently feminist and against stereotypes are the ones frowning upon "girly" things. Little girls who like spa parties and pink clothes are poor little misguided girls who society is cramming these ideas into their heads, they should be outside climbing trees and doing boy things because little girls getting their nails painted obviously would rather be outside playing in the mud. Differences between males and females are there for biological reasons, and not everything is a social experiment being manipulated by advertising and the entertainment industry. It all just seems like a big pile of hypocrisy to me. I'm not an overly frilly person, but I enjoy "female" things like getting my hair done, make up, facials, pedicures, etc, because I enjoy them. Period. And if those things make me more attractive to my mate... Good.
    I think some traits are biological, and some are nurtured in a way that is distorted. There's nothing twisted about a girl who likes pink or who likes to primp, but there is too much emphasis put on physical beauty, cuteness, "femininity" in young girls.
    The opposite is also true. Masculine traits are associated with power and success. Women have to work harder to prove themselves in male-dominated fields, while statistically, we take a pay-cut. Nameberry thinks Cyril is "virile for a girl."
    Funny, Rowangreeneyes, I didn't mention tree-climbing as an example of a masculine activity. I mentioned climbing trees, reading books, playing make-believe, as things that all kids should be encouraged to do, rather than spending their time having beauty parlor parties, wasting their energy on superficial values that may backfire and make them feel inadequate later in life. I don't think of tree-climbing as a masculine activity. I think of trees as quite gender-neutral, which is why I consider Rowan, Linden, and the like to be truly unisex names. Do you feel differently? ;-)

  5. #84
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    Posts
    395
    There are a few interesting points made here, and a few who are clearing just baiting for an argument. I use to have a strong opinion on this but now it really feels like kicking a dead horse. Rowangreeneyes made the best point here, whats your end game? All you can do is name your children the names you like and let other people name their children what they like. I read over and over how most posters love Name berry because in the real world people make them feel bad about the names they love. Then they turn around and make others feel bad about the names they love because they are 'trendy' 'down market' 'Walmart/toddlers and tiara sect'.

    I don't know, I just don't see the point of getting upset about something you really can't change. Please dont take anything I said as a personal attack. I am just stating things as I see them.

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