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  1. #31
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    Oct 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by east93 View Post
    I'm loving this thread so much, I don't even know where to begin - my thoughts are everywhere!

    Okay, *deep breath, tries to organize thoughts*

    My mother said something that rings so true for me: "There are no examples of feminine success, only masculine."
    It was a passing comment in a conversation I wasn't a part of, but I took a lot from that. If I were to elaborate on it I would say: "There are little to no examples to feminine success, unless it's sexual. To be successful is graded on a masculine scale."
    I hope that gets my point across.

    In response to this comment:


    My answer would be to use unisex names evenly, and stop using names that are meant for boys on girls.
    I posted a thread on opinions on using the name Eden on a boy, which is one of my favourite names, and many users thought is was too "feminine" or even that it was totally a girls name.
    When Eden is in fact far from a girls only name, and is arguable a male name if one wants to go into it's origins and Hebrew history. Some comments said that Eden sounded like a girls name, which I found weird since it sounds and awful lot like Aiden, which is not viewed as too feminine sounding...
    Plus with the Hebrew pronunciation (Eh-den), it's not girly imo at all.

    I think education and correction is key.
    I love the name Eden, and I'm not going to let it "Oh, but it's used on girls..." deter me from possibly using it. It's still on my list.
    It bothers me when parents choose boys names for girls because it's not meant for girls, and there are plenty of female options, it causes confusion and it's just aggravatingly unnecessary to me.
    As for unisex names, those are fair game! But when the parents select a name like Phoenix or Rory because "It'll make people think she's a boy, and be better for her...", that makes me want to smash my computer.

    There's nothing empowering about a girl named Ryan and there's nothing degrading about a boy named Eden.
    I love everything you've said here, and completely agree. Personally I think Eden is totally unisex and would be excited to see it on a boy. Looking at my own list, the only really unisex choices are Marlowe, River, and Saylor -- even Juniper skews female. I would love to see a list of truly unisex choices, not just boys' names on girls but names altogether without a history of gender-specific use. As someone who tends to go for names with historical and literary associations, however, I'm not sure I would actually like any of the names on such a list; I think they would, by necessity, be modern invented names, or nature names (which, admittedly, I actually quite like).

    Matilda Sailor or Faye Matilda | Sylvie Winifred or Simon Atlas | Atlas Dov or Alice Violetta | Lucien Wilde or Lucinda Jane | Jane Lucinda or Jack Mariner | Marlowe Charles or Roscoe Thomas | Charles ' Charlie' Wallace or Marigold 'Maggie' Wynn | Eloise Lily or Elliot Darwin | Iris Cordelia or Thea Marina | Jasper Augustus or Juniper 'June' Lovelace | Julian Felix or Judah 'Jude' Reeve

    Just a grad student dreaming ahead...

  2. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by blade View Post
    Just look at the nameberry description of my son Antoine's name: "your friendly neighborhood hairdresser." The implication, of course, is that Antoine is a gay name (because it's French and somewhat soft; of course no one would ever say that about Anthony or Antonio), and being a gay name is obviously undesirable and mockable.
    Off topic, but yet another reason why I have an issue with the nameberry's entries.
    Last edited by east93; April 9th, 2013 at 09:21 PM.

  3. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by augusta_lee View Post
    Your original hypothesis is that gay men are more oppressed than gay women. I'm telling you that this is a ridiculous comparison that completely discounts history, lived experiences, issues of intersectionality, and, you know, reality. It is not a valid argument. If you're going to persist in trying to make it anyway, cite sources.
    I most definitely did not get that from Blade's post, nor did I see her use the term "oppression" in it.

    She did say "socially more feared and unacceptable", and that names that are classed as "a gay name" are undesirable and mockable. I don't pick up on "gay men are more oppressed than gay women." statement though. :/
    Laurel - 21 - Aries - Slytherin - University of Toronto





  4. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by blade View Post
    Just look at the nameberry description of my son Antoine's name: "your friendly neighborhood hairdresser." The implication, of course, is that Antoine is a gay name (because it's French and somewhat soft; of course no one would ever say that about Anthony or Antonio), and being a gay name is obviously undesirable and mockable.
    Even leaving aside the fact that I often find nameberry's name descriptions to be far too subjectively worded and sanctimoniously delivered, re: Antoine's entry: ugh. It's a similar story for Dorian - it's decried as "somewhat feminine" in the male entry (also apparently its popularity has taken a "nosedive"), while the female entry calls Dorian "attractive" (for a girl) and claims it "crossed the lake into the girls' camp several years ago". This latter statement is particularly bizarre, since Dorian has never ranked for girls, and last I checked, on average, there were something like 400-500 more male than female Dorians born per year. It bums me out that some real parents might be scared out of using perfectly legitimate names because some capricious and biased soul on nameberry described a name as "too feminine" (or "unstylish," or whatever).

    Quote Originally Posted by east93 View Post
    Off topic, but yet another reason why I have an issue with the nameberry's entries.
    I feel like this could be a thread unto itself. (Has it been in the past?) I've been trawling through the database, looking to see if there were any particularly egregious entries also relevant to this thread. Apparently nameberry advocates gender-swapping Ira, and Hollis has "gone to the girls"...even though in 2011 the ratio was 5:2 in favor of the boys.
    on my mind, for the moment

    Daria | Athena | Ramona | Winifred | Maeve | Blythe | Nadine | Dorothea | Margot | Cyra | Renata | Hypatia | Junia | Thisbe

    Flynn | Otto | Winston | Claude | Leif | Roald | Tavish | Lionel | Cormac | Tobin | Oswin | Rory | Damon | Tycho

    Mildred "Red" ☆ Obedience "Bede" ☆ Relief "Leafy" ☆ Dorothea "Doro" ☆ Penelope "Pen" ☆ Ruth "Rue" ☆ Eudoxia "Exie"

  5. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by east93 View Post
    I most definitely did not get that from Blade's post, nor did I see her use the term "oppression" in it.

    She did say "socially more feared and unacceptable", and that names that are classed as "a gay name" are undesirable and mockable. I don't pick up on "gay men are more oppressed than gay women." statement though. :/
    "I don't think saying one thing is more feared/oppressed than another means the second thing isn't also feared/oppressed."

    'More' is a term of measurement, thus implying that oppression is a measurable quality -- and that the "one thing" (gay men) is more oppressed than the "second thing".

    Matilda Sailor or Faye Matilda | Sylvie Winifred or Simon Atlas | Atlas Dov or Alice Violetta | Lucien Wilde or Lucinda Jane | Jane Lucinda or Jack Mariner | Marlowe Charles or Roscoe Thomas | Charles ' Charlie' Wallace or Marigold 'Maggie' Wynn | Eloise Lily or Elliot Darwin | Iris Cordelia or Thea Marina | Jasper Augustus or Juniper 'June' Lovelace | Julian Felix or Judah 'Jude' Reeve

    Just a grad student dreaming ahead...

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