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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    713
    Throwing in my two cents here. My mom dressed me in skirts, dresses, and lots of frills and pink when I was little. She loved it. When I was with my dad I was in hand me down onesies with cars and trucks on them from my cousins.
    As I got older I still preferred boys' clothes. I had boys jeans, I didn't like having extra material hanging off my jeans from flare legs or the gems and studs on girls' boot cuts, so boys' boot cuts it was. I wore girls t-shirts but they were blue, yellow, purple. No pink, although my bedroom was pink (at my insistence). By the time I was 12 I was in girls' clothes at my mom's direction. I hated it. She threw out my monster truck shirts, my cargo shorts that held all the cool pine cones and stuff I found while I was climbing trees. I was devastated.
    By 14 I had accepted wearing girls' pants (jeans and capris) but I wore boys' t-shirts because I was more comfortable in them because I didn't like how I looked. I was overweight because puberty didn't like me and I put on 50 lbs in three months. I went from 90lbs at 11 years old to 140 at 12.
    As I'm typing this now I'm in guys' athletic pants and a guys' t-shirt. When I go on my interview tonight I'll be in girls' jeans (flares just not huge ones), because I love them and my favorite pink girls' t-shirt.
    One reason my relationship is strained with my mom is because I don't like having pedicures and manicures, I don't wear short shorts because I still don't like how I look in them (you must wear short shorts to be girly), and I still despise when she tries to tell me to dress like a girl and in general get furious when we go shopping and I buy more capris, jeans and t-shirts. But if I buy low cut girls' shirts, which I do like and wear, all is forgiven.
    My brother on the other hand wears purples and light baby blues and loves playing dolls with our younger cousins. She's fine with that. But me acting a bit masculine, not okay.
    My SO's youngest brother is called a sissy because he loves Dora and playing with dolls, but mention football and he wants to play. I see nothing wrong with him, myself or my brother.
    Sorry that was long and rambling and didn't really answer anything but I figured I'd share from someone who had girlyness shoved on her and hated it.
    If I had a baby right now they'd be:
    Isaac
    or
    Blaire

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    1,967
    Quote Originally Posted by blade View Post
    I will say, just to make an already thorny discussion even thornier, that I think the higher up the SES ladder you go, the less you are threatened by non-conformity to expected gender norms, especially for boys. The toy kitchen anecdote is so completely alien I have difficulty relating to it.
    SES as in socioeconomic status?

    Are you actually trying to claim that rich people are more enlightened when it comes to gender?

    Matilda Sailor or Faye Matilda | Sylvie Winifred or Simon Atlas | Atlas Dov or Alice Violetta | Lucien Wilde or Lucinda Jane | Jane Lucinda or Jack Marlowe | Marlowe Charles or Roscoe Thomas | Charles ' Charlie' Wallace or Marigold 'Maggie' Wynn | Eloise Lily or Elliot Darwin | Iris Cordelia or August Reeve | Jasper Augustus or Juniper 'June' Lovelace | Thea Marina or Judah 'Jude' Reeve

    Just a grad student dreaming ahead...

  3. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,350
    Wow, your neighbour is abominably rude to berate a guest about his/her gift choice in front of other guests! Everyone has the right to make decisions about what they allow in their own home, but a private conversation would suffice. There's no need to physically remove the gift at once unless it's dangerous to the child (like they gave Peanut M&Ms to a kid with nut allergies or something). That's a terrible example for the child of how to respond to an unwanted gift.

    As a kid, I loved dresses and Barbie dolls, but also played with GI Joe toys and cars with my brother. I personally fall to the side of wanting my future kids to have options associated with either gender, but especially non-gendered toys like alphabet blocks and other things that stimulate imagination. I can't imagine not letting a little boy play with something because it's "girly"; however, I *can* imagine limiting certain toys in my home because of my own believes (toy guns being a big one), so I try hard not to judge others who do things I don't understand.

    As to letting kids make their own choices, this may not come out right, but I do think that if kids are old enough to make decisions on what to wear, etc., we can also teach them that there may be consequences to their choices. I have a friend whose son (almost 6) loves pink and wants to wear nail polish. Sometimes he asks to wear nail polish to school, and she will tell him he can, but remind him that the last time he wore nail polish, the boys teased him. She feels that it's not fair to allow him to do something without warning him how others may react. He is old enough to decide whether he wants to wear nail polish enough to bear the teasing, and sometimes he does.
    Miriam ~ Helena ~ Estella ~ Beatrice ~ Anastasia ~ Alice ~ Marilla ~ Sarah
    Paul ~ Wesley ~ Walter ~ Edmund ~ Isaac ~ Abram ~ Gabriel

    Trying for baby#1
    Avatar: Nathan Altman, Portrait of Anna Akhmatova

  4. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Flyover Territory
    Posts
    1,145
    I was one of those parents who swore that everything would be gender-neutral. I got about as far as painting the nursery a soft gray before we found out the gender and the pinks and purples started finding their way in. Much of it was out of my control - at our shower, we received everything in pink and sparkles. There were several dolls, and not a single ball. Now that I'm slowly buying some of her toys myself (rare, with three sets of grandparents in the area), there are some cars and blocks and balls. She's 16 months and I've seen no preference whatsoever for girly over boyish, or vice versa. She really only cares about books anyway

    DH and I have discussed this at length, and plan to support her interests. I was very much a tomboy as a kid, and "one of the guys" in high school/college. I preferred books, digging in the dirt, and climbing trees to Barbies, dabbled in gymnastics and dance, and played sports through middle and high school (with a brief and horrifying experience with cheerleading). My parents never had a problem with my interests, and none of them were ever deemed gender inappropriate. DH, on the other hand, sounds like Ottilie. Sure, he played with his G.I. Joes and his toy guns/swords, but he also liked dolls. Most of his time was devoted to pretend play, though. He was always dressing up in tights and hats and running around as Robin Hood or Peter Pan. He would have been in dance classes if his dad hadn't decided it was sissy stuff and forbidden him from doing it. His family talks about it now as if it was the most ridiculous thing ever that he was still doing these things at 12.

    If we have a son at any point, the only thing I can see forbidding is [American] football and rugby. I think we'd lose it if we had to sit through that. I do often wonder what I would do if a son expressed the desire to wear dresses in public places. I saw the article about the dad who wears skirts to show his son it's okay, and I give him big props for being secure enough in himself to do that. I don't know if DH would be. I think, if said son was old enough to have the discussion, I'd probably level with him and let him know that he can do whatever he feels is necessary to be true to himself, but that there is a very good likelihood that he will be made fun of by his peers and even adults. Obviously, I'd make it clear that DH and I would support him in his decision, but I think it's cruel to send him off to school without a clue that this may cause problems for him. I'm a big believer in having all the information available so that you can weigh the cost and make the decision that works for you. I certainly wish someone would have told me how ridiculous those stirrup pants with the different colored Saturns on them looked - it would have saved me some merciless teasing in the 5th grade!
    Tara, proud mama to a Honey Badger
    ... and a Badger in Training

  5. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    667
    I'm not sure how economic status comes into it either. I live in a nice area with a low crime rate and fabulous schools, but its a very traditional "small town" kind of community.

    I live in a rural area, where the patriarchal family is still very common ie. Dad goes out and earns money, mom looks after the kids at home. Dad does the DIY while Mom cooks dinner..You get my drift. I also live in a very religious community, according to our most recent Cencus something like 75% of people living in my area are practising Roman Catholics.

    I don't see how financial stability comes into it, in my own experience I've witnessed gender stereotyping in a wide range of families, including families who would be financially "well off".


    Mama to Amelie Clara (2008) & Daisy Madeline (2013).

    Alice Tallulah, Polly Matilda, Rosalie Faye, Lucy Annabel, Maya Lillian, Hazel Kate, Eva Blossom, Juliet Lila, Ivy Camille.
    Charles Joshua "Charlie", Theodore Samuel "Teddy", Elliott Daniel, Noah Zachary, James Oscar, Arthur Philip, Rowan Isaac.





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