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  1. #56
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    186
    Although it's worth considering why a minority [edit: a minority of men, I mean] would try and carve out a new niche. There's still an underlying misogyny for as long as feminine = undesirable.
    Agreed, however I worry that the already existing misogyny of many men is only being exacerbated by women's freedom-IWO that we pay for it one way or the other (in the prior form of lesser freedoms or current /future manifestations as cultural backlash/ increased (?) violence against women).

  2. #58
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    186
    One other thought per the initial poster- I think the gender stereotyping is increasing to such a degree that I find that girls and boys no longer play together, at least not the way they did in my generation (I was a child in the late 70s/early 80s). Outside of my own children who play with reach other, I find that all the birthday parties we go to are single-sex after about the age of 4 years old, and no one has playdates with boys/girls the way I remember happening and experienced myself when I was growing up. It seems sad and regressive.

  3. #60
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Flyover Territory
    Posts
    1,145
    Quote Originally Posted by katzenjammers View Post
    One other thought per the initial poster- I think the gender stereotyping is increasing to such a degree that I find that girls and boys no longer play together, at least not the way they did in my generation (I was a child in the late 70s/early 80s). Outside of my own children who play with reach other, I find that all the birthday parties we go to are single-sex after about the age of 4 years old, and no one has playdates with boys/girls the way I remember happening and experienced myself when I was growing up. It seems sad and regressive.
    I remember it being this way when I was growing up in the 80's. I wonder if the parties thing has as much to do with the ridiculous amounts of money that people spend on birthday parties these days. Much easier to just say "only the boys from class" than to pick and choose. Although, DH's parents admittedly kept him from coed parties after about age 8, and that was the 80's.
    Tara, proud mama to a Honey Badger
    ... and a Badger in Training

  4. #62
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,438
    Quote Originally Posted by tk. View Post
    I certainly wish someone would have told me how ridiculous those stirrup pants with the different colored Saturns on them looked - it would have saved me some merciless teasing in the 5th grade!
    Ohh, man I hear you on that front! I had cow print leggings in Grade 6. You think my parents could have foreseen the negative outcome of that fashion choice....
    Miriam ~ Helena ~ Estella ~ Beatrice ~ Anastasia ~ Alice ~ Marilla ~ Sarah
    Paul ~ Wesley ~ Walter ~ Edmund ~ Isaac ~ Abram ~ Gabriel

    Trying for baby#1
    Avatar: Nathan Altman, Portrait of Anna Akhmatova

  5. #64
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,240
    Quote Originally Posted by tk. View Post
    I had to laugh at this, because it's so true. My MIL's haughty reaction was priceless, the time that she was with me when someone got Ivy's gender wrong. The fact that she was wearing an aqua shirt with ruffles on it was apparently not obvious enough. What I found interesting about the few "gender neutral" (i.e. light yellow, beige, or light green) outfits that I put her in, was that every last person assumed she was a boy. So apparently male is the default if there is any ambiguity. I think it's as much an indication that people don't really stop to take in the details (ruffles, obviously feminine features) as that they make assumptions about stereotypes.
    That's so funny -- we've had the opposite experience. Our son is almost 2 and despite his boyish haircut (which I'm sure someone will yell at me for saying), EVERYONE thinks he is a girl. It has never bothered me and when he was very young and had the blonde curls, I almost felt bad for people who would start commenting on how beautiful he was only to stop when they realized they couldn't figure out if he was a boy or a girl. Most went with girl and still do, no matter what he's wearing. It's very bizarre, but I couldn't care less. I just take it as a compliment that he's so beautiful that people think he's a girl, but I'm sure that's just the mother in me.

    To answer the original question, he's obviously still young, but he plays with stuffed animals, including lots of pink and purple bears and other animals. If he's given a choice (which he always is) he will always choose pink and purple out of the color options. He also is obsessed with cleaning supplies like vacuums, brooms/dustpans, etc., and he loves it when we go to playdates at houses where they have toy kitchens! I actually was worried when we started noticing this because my husband is pretty macho and I thought he would not like it, but he's totally fine about it and is just happy that our son is having fun. I can't speak from experience since we haven't had to deal with any harder issues than a pink bear and a vacuum, but I suspect we will just want our son to be happy regardless of what that means. And for the record, we are very conservative and from very conservative families and environments.

    Which brings me to Blade's comment that everyone lambasted. I took it to mean that the higher up the SES scale you get, the more you can rely upon the fact that your child will likely be accepted and successful no matter what they are like, so there is less pressure to get them to conform to society's stereotypes, whereas folks (mainly males) lower on the SES scale feel more like they have to force their sons to be masculine to be accepted (even if it's more subconscious) and the fathers more likely came from that environment themselves. I could be wrong about what she meant and it obviously wouldn't be true all the time, nothing ever is, but that fits my experience (which includes folks on both ends and the middle of the scale).

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