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  1. #141
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    2,035
    I started What to Expect and was kind of put off by the tone, I know it's supposed to be the standard but it felt so talk-down/negative. The Mayo Clinic Guide has been better for me, just straightforward and really informative. I also read you: having a baby since I love all of those books for pure entertainment value, ok read but I will only refer back to a couple parts.

    Business of Being Born...I saw it awhile ago and wasn't a fan. I just don't like documentaries that seem to start out with a "Let me prove why I'm right" attitude if that makes any sense.

    @libby, nursery is lovely! I can see it working for an Avery or a Claire actually..

  2. #143
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    1,313
    rin- if you choose an elective repeat c section, it is not making you inadequate! it is your decision to do what you feel is best for you and baby. In my case, I am attempting a vbac and I feel that is the best decision. (i also pushed for 2 hours, baby was OP asynclitic) I have done lots of research and feel like the chances of something like this happening again are pretty small. There are things you can do to decrease the chances of having a posterior baby, too! Maybe do some more research on it and don't feel pressured to decide right now. I personally feel like I would rather have a shot at it and go through it again, even if I end up with another c section for the same reason, because then I will know I did ALL I could do to birth naturally. But again, that is a very personal decision and not everyone will feel that strongly about it. If you don't, then that is okay. I don't like the risks of repeat c sections either and don't want the number of children I have limited by the fact I shouldn't have any more surgeries. Again, this is not something that bothers everyone, especially if you already know you only want a certain number. I don't know how many I want and I don't think I will know for a while. I just don't want that being the only factor keeping me from having more in the future. It is a complicated decision and I know how you feel! Sometimes it easier to not think about all these things for a while! If you do go for a vbac, I go to the vbac support board on Babycenter.com and have found lots of helpful information and resources on there to help me continue to make my decisions.

    As for the Business of being born I have found people are either all for natural/homebirths or they are very against them and most people can't be swayed easily to change their opinion from either side. I have seen it and found the information helpful. In my research I have come across many stories of OBs who are so quick to push interventions/c sections and the c section rate in our country is super high right now so the idea of a homebirth appeals to me but I am not one to take the risk. I have 3 friends that do them and they would never be convinced of going to a hospital and they can't really convince me of a home birth. It can be such a controversial topic! Sometimes I have found its best to agree to disagree! My friend who does homebirths will be with me at my hospital birth so I'm sure it will be a very different side for her to see.

  3. #145
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    4,514
    Quote Originally Posted by anajo View Post
    Also, you may not see any merit in the documentary; honestly I didn't expect you to.
    I'm sorry I've disappointed you in my ability to think critically.

    But it is important to be able to see where each side is coming from. I don't know Ricki Lake from any other context than this movie, but she helped me regain some of my faith in the medical field. This documentary gave me hope that ob/gyn's and midwives could work together to make an unmedicated, natural birth possible in a hospital setting (Ricki Lake did not have her baby in her bathtub, but rather in a birthing center attached to a hospital). True, people need to think and research for themselves to discover all the facts, but does that mean we need to criticize those who are not telling women what to do, but rather discussing some possible options?
    "Research," when used in this context, usually means reading opinion books and opinion blogs and opinion websites written by laypeople with no fact-checking or oversight. There is no knowledge. There is no research. There is only telling yourself what you want to hear.

    The general faith and trust many women place in these websites boggles my mind. I do not understand why they're so suspicious of an obstetrician who tells them something obvious like "your baby's heart rate indicates he is in distress; he might be gravely brain-damaged if he is not delivered immediately" or "breech birth is inherently risky due to the very real risk of head entrapment." That is viewed very suspiciously, that the OB is trying to push an agenda or control the woman or make it to their golf game on time. Whereas the stuff written in the NCB community is swallowed hook, line and sinker, with blind faith that would make any priest jealous. The kinds of 'evidence' on these websites is usually a mix of anecdotes, magical thinking, appeals to spirituality & faith (ranging from appeals to the primitive birth goddess we as females may all embody, to traditional Christianity) and confidently asserted statements with absolutely no proof or evidence.

    The fact is, unless you have access to a patient population, a research laboratory, an outcomes database, or all three, you cannot conduct research into birthing practices that means anything at all. You can only believe what other people tell you. And you can only decide who has more credibility, the entire medical/scientific establishment, or people who want to sell books.

    Sidenote: I could go on about the inconsistency and unreliability of peer reviews, official scientific research, etc,
    No you can't, sorry.

    So here are just two: First, lead in paint and other household items for decades (http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Recalls/1977/...taining-Paint/). In this case, the official research was conducted while 100's of millions of people were adversely affected by lead-tainted items. It was only after years of exposure, that almost a total ban was put in effect.
    And how exactly does this support your point that research and scientific evidence is unreliable? Research was conducted into the topic, after clever people began noticing a grave microcytic anemia, mental retardation, and behavioral disturbances in certain children. Serum lead levels were measured, along with countless other things. Epidemiological evidence was then validated on the molecular level, the principles of causation were applied, and voila! public health policy change based on scientific evidence. I think this very much validates the scientific enterprise, from the population level right on down to the cellular one. Unless you are arguing that folk wisdom always had it that lead in paint and gasoline was dangerous, and arrogant doctors assured the public it was fine, but they had their comeuppance in the end? While that would support your thesis, it would unfortunately suffer from the small problem of being entirely false.

    Secondly, "Some dietary supplements are beneficial when taken appropriately" was finally decided by the FDA (http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/Cons.../ucm050816.htm). Even an "uneducated, non-Medical" person could have told you that for the past 50+ yrs. Both the decisions were ultimately correct, however peer-review and official-sanctioned research is not sacrosanct and is usually years behind the times.
    What exactly could an 'uneducated, non-medical' person have told you? The statement quoted by the FDA is a very vague one indeed. Does that same 'uneducated, non-medical person' know, off the top of their heads, the principal side effects of saw palmetto, the safe metered dose of ginko baloba, or anything else specific and helpful that can only be known through careful clinical and laboratory research? The FDA does not regard herbal remedies as pharmaceuticals and does not regulate them (though I personally believe they should, at least the ones that actually contain active ingredients). What you quoted is nothing more than a public policy statement, an opening line, a general plaudit akin to "nutrition is important" and "a healthy lifestyle consists of diet and exercise."
    Last edited by blade; February 11th, 2013 at 05:15 PM.
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  4. #147
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    916
    Ok. I have a little story. Let me start out with the caveat that I have never been pregnant and I am so not a doctor or a scientist. I write humorous blog posts for a living.

    When I first started trying to conceive I started reading about natural fertility measures. (I have since decided, on the advice of my doctor, to take more aggressive measures, but that's another topic.) My research - correctly defined above by Blade as reading opinions, which I think is fine as long as you realize you're reading opinions - led me to reading about natural birth.

    My friend - I'll call her Susie - has had four children, 3 of them in hospitals. With #3 she has a bad experience with her epidural. The anesthesiologist was kind of, idk, not incompetent but maybe having a bad day, who knows. Long story short, she ended up with what I think is called a spinal headache. It was horrible, from what she tells me. Her friend is a doula, and talked her into having #4 naturally at home.

    They got a big tub for the living room. She got herself a midwife and started practicing breathing or whatever the hell. She ended up having something called prodromal labor. Correct me if that's wrong. Basically she was contracting pretty badly for a few weeks and it sucked. Then it was real labor time. They waited a long time to call the MW, and then it took her a long time to get there so when she arrived sh*t was getting real.

    And then all the sudden the MW screamed at Susie to get out of the tub. The baby was presenting footling breach. The MW started saying, "I can't do this," and instructed Dad to call 911.

    The way Susie explained it to me, based on what the MW told her later, footling breach is dangerous because the baby is coming out of you, instead of butt first like the regular breach presentation, feet-first, like your vagina is a water slide. And supposedly a lot of babies feel air and have a shrug reflex at the unfamiliar sensation, which makes their shoulders stick in the birth canal. Anyway I don't know if I've explained that correctly or how accurate that is, but the MW made Susie aware later that her life and the baby's were in significant danger.

    Happily, Baby E. was born safely, with about 8 burly, fascinated City of Richardson, Texas firefighter/paramedics standing behind them in the living room watching.

    For a few days, Susie was freaked out. She rethought her decision to birth at home in light of the fact that she and her baby almost died. Her husband described E's little blue foot coming out of her, thinking the baby was already dead.

    Then a week later, after a lot of "reassuring" by her doula and midwife, she was extolling the virtues of home birth again.

    I don't know the statistics of home born vs. hospital birth. I don't particularly care. I am all for natural birth if that's what makes you happy, but I don't think giving birth screaming in a tub with your vegan boyfriend cradling you makes you morally superior to the lady in the next room reading magazines through her labor because she had an epidural.

    All I know is this: if I am blessed with a baby, whether I give birth in a tub or not, I want to be at most a few yards away from about 20 people who gave a sh*tload of money to universities. I want 72 advanced degrees in the room with me. I want Dr. Blade, et al, within touching distance. I want a gazillion hours of experience, every drug and apparatus known to man, and basically every tool at the disposal of Western medicine on the same floor with me. Because it's my BABY. My BABY.

    I don't care how transcendent and awesome it is to give birth at home. I don't care if Freya and Aphrodite and Isis appear to me and lovingly stroke my dreadlocks as my boyfriend and I consume the placenta in our birthing tub while little Ostara is decidedly NOT being Apgar tested. I don't see any compelling reason in the world for making some big point about western medicine at the expense of my baby's safety.

    Y'all do what y'all want with y'all's babies. As for me and mine, we're birthing in hospitals with doctors. The best we can find.
    Last edited by missusaytch; February 11th, 2013 at 08:09 PM.
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  5. #149
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    1,266
    Mine will be a hospital birth just like my previous two. I actually was interested in homebirth but my husband wouldn't even consider it. Glad he didn't as with my first I had back labor which is so much worse than normal labor (second was normal labor) and I hemorrhaged after delivering my daughter. My uterus did not do what it was supposed to do but instead filled with blood (POSSIBLY as a result of my long labor). That was just a bad experience all around except for having a great doctor. I'm bot against homebirths by any means, so long as you live close to a hospital as there is a very real possibility in any birth of injury or death to both mother and child. A birthing center utilizing midwives attached to a medical unit with doctors is the most ideal scenario in my opinion so that there is immediate medical assistance if something does go wrong. I have had epidurals with my first two. Way to early in labor with my first (back labor is just awful) and it being gravity fed wasn't explained to me (crappy nurses with my first save for this one day nurse, night shift was just utterly worthless, second baby had awesome nurses with this one in particular, I would be beyond thrilled to have her be my nurse again). Second time I held off a long time which made me very proud of myself as that was my goal. So we'll see what happens with this baby.

    Next Wed will hopefully find out my baby's sex! Really hope the baby cooperates. My first didn't at her 20 week scan and my second did.
    Last edited by jersey_gray; February 12th, 2013 at 02:26 AM.

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